2004/10/04
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IRC [10:51] <jcollins_> w00t monday it is
IRC [11:01] <Dossy> All day. :(
IRC [11:08] <jcollins_> oh yeah thanks for reminding me
IRC [11:09] <jcollins_> surfing HI property
IRC [11:09] <jcollins_> amazing 102sqft condo for $70k
IRC [11:09] <jcollins_> 120
IRC [11:24] <Dossy> 120 sqft? or 1200 sqft?
IRC [11:25] <Dossy> i mean, 120 sqft is like one room, 11' x 11' :)
IRC [11:26] <jcollins_> 120
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IRC [12:04] <Dossy> OK, this is annoying.
IRC [12:07] <jcollins_> What?
IRC [12:08] <jcollins_> That it's 11:07 and I haven't left for lunch?
IRC [12:13] <Dossy> heh
IRC [12:13] <Dossy> crash in aolserver w/ tcl 8.4.4
IRC [12:13] <Dossy> can't figure out what caused it specifically --
IRC [12:14] <Dossy> i have a hunch it's fixed in tcl8.4.5+ but, I want to be sure
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IRC [12:33] <jcollins_> ah
IRC [13:27] * Dossy sighs.
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IRC [14:18] <jcollins_> I wonder how long it takes a large company to fill a software engineer job. Like say Yahoo!, or Apple, or Google.
IRC [14:19] <Dossy> Depends.
IRC [14:19] <Dossy> Sometimes less than 8 hours. Sometimes a month or more.
IRC [14:19] <jcollins_> haha
IRC [14:19] <jcollins_> We're at 4 months now I think.
IRC [14:25] <Dossy> Eek.
IRC [14:25] <Dossy> What's the position you're looking to fill?
IRC [14:26] <jcollins_> Software Engineer
IRC [14:26] <Dossy> geographical location? on-site/telecommute?
IRC [14:27] <jcollins_> Dallas, TX/Onsite
IRC [14:29] <Dossy> Doing Tcl/AOLserver? Or something else?
IRC [14:29] <jcollins_> Yup
IRC [14:29] <jcollins_> AOLserver
IRC [14:29] <Dossy> if you're in TX, how far are you from Austin?
IRC [14:29] <Dossy> you could try poaching the ex-Vignette folks.
IRC [14:30] <Dossy> Most should have *some* form of Tcl experience.
IRC [14:30] <jcollins_> People from Austin rarely want to move to Dallas :)
IRC [14:30] <Dossy> Hmm. It'd require a move, huh?
IRC [14:31] <jcollins_> And we could really care less if they have Tcl experience.
IRC [14:31] <Dossy> Hmm.
IRC [14:31] <Dossy> Do people in Dallas TX know how to use computers?
IRC [14:31] <jcollins_> A couple of us do.
IRC [14:31] <Dossy> I hear there's parts of TX that may or may not even have electricity and such. :)
IRC [14:31] <jcollins_> haha
IRC [14:31] <Dossy> Someone I hired as a temp. employee lives in Lubbock, TX.
IRC [14:32] <jcollins_> Oh yeah, is this a current employee or from a while back?
IRC [14:34] <Dossy> jcollins: A while back now, why?
IRC [14:35] <jcollins_> We had an employee in Lubbock
IRC [14:35] <Dossy> Oh?
IRC [14:35] <jcollins_> Once upon a time.
IRC [14:38] <Dossy> Are you not getting a lot of resumes, or just getting crap ones?
IRC [14:39] <jcollins_> Just crap.
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IRC [16:30] <AndyPiskorski> Dossy, does the Windows compiler really reliably accept -foo options in addition to /foo ?
IRC [16:30] <AndyPiskorski> And / for directory separators rather than \ ?
IRC [16:31] <AndyPiskorski> Oh, I just found that - and / are both documented for options in the MS docs, cool.
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IRC [16:32] <Dossy> andy: regarding command line args - yes. it should.
IRC [16:32] <Dossy> "/" for directory separators -- it must. works for me, at least :)
IRC [16:32] <AndyPiskorski> Ah, and using / for directory separators is also blessed in the docs. Excellent.
IRC [16:33] <Dossy> heh.
IRC [16:33] <Dossy> eventually microsoft will make cl.exe more gcc compatible. muahaha.
IRC [16:34] <Dossy> port gmake to native win32 and replace nmake, and make cl.exe have a gcc compatibility mode ... muaha.
IRC [16:46] <AndyPiskorski> The MS cl.exe compiler appears to be VERY fidgety with respect to double quotes around command line options, though. They often don't seem to work.
IRC [16:46] <AndyPiskorski> Anyway, using buil.tcl to compile the AOLserver head on Windows was working for me the other day, but now it seems to die,
IRC [16:46] <AndyPiskorski> in nsd/dns.c, with undeclared identifier NI_MAXHOST
IRC [16:46] <Dossy> because you MESSED with it :)
IRC [16:47] <Dossy> heh
IRC [16:47] <Dossy> you must have rebooted. :)
IRC [16:47] <AndyPiskorski> Thing is, I can't figure out why, or what changed.
IRC [16:48] <AndyPiskorski> Except for this error, I would have sworn that nothing DID changed.
IRC [16:48] <Dossy> my recommendation: try building with a clean, unadulterated build.tcl
IRC [16:48] <AndyPiskorski> Already did that.
IRC [16:49] <Dossy> you installed all the free tools?
IRC [16:49] <Dossy> compiler, platform sdk and the .net sdk?
IRC [16:50] <AndyPiskorski> Yes, of course.
IRC [16:51] <AndyPiskorski> I don't THINK any of the AOLserver sources on the Head changed recently, although I may have done a cvs update.
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IRC [16:55] <Dossy> mhm
IRC [16:55] <Dossy> be back later.
IRC [16:57] <AndyPiskorski> Oh, crud. Yes, the problem actually was that I rebooted. Or more correctly, that I was using a new DOS prompt.
IRC [16:58] <AndyPiskorski> I failed to follow my own instructions - I forgot to run the necessary batch files to set the Windows environment variables for the build.
IRC [17:26] <AndyPiskorski> Oh, great. The binary Windows version of OpenSSL I installed:
IRC [17:26] <AndyPiskorski> http://www.slproweb.com/products/Win32OpenSSL.html
IRC [17:27] <AndyPiskorski> seems to have totally DIFFERENT libraries than the unix version!
IRC [17:28] <AndyPiskorski> Unix has libcrypto.so and libssl.so. Windows has libeay32.lib and ssleay32.lib - bizarre.
IRC [17:28] <AndyPiskorski> Anyone know why that is? The binary distro does say it is a "default build", so perhaps that's why?
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IRC [18:57] <Dossy> andy: heh
IRC [18:57] <Dossy> I think I'm going to replace my silly build.tcl with nmake makefiles for win32.
IRC [18:57] <Dossy> ...
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IRC [19:07] <AndyPiskorski> Why?
IRC [19:17] <Dossy> dunno.
IRC [19:17] <Dossy> because more people grok makefiles.
IRC [19:17] <Dossy> It's a documented format.
IRC [19:18] <Dossy> my build.tcl was a 30 minute hack.
IRC [19:21] <AndyPiskorski> Makefiles suck. If nmake is equal in functinality to the unix makes, then it will be good enough (although still sucking).
IRC [19:22] <AndyPiskorski> If it is NOT, then I'd much rather see a Tcl based make alternative.
IRC [19:22] <AndyPiskorski> I might rather see a Tcl based make alternative REGARDLESS, but I don't really know, since I've never used any of them.
IRC [19:23] <Dossy> it's the one time when I'm considering using Ant.
IRC [19:24] <Dossy> I'd like to do a tcl-based make, but it just seems like such a waste of time.
IRC [19:24] <Dossy> sigh, i dunno.
IRC [19:24] <AndyPiskorski> AOLserver is already dependent on Tcl, not on Java. Using a build tool dependent on Java would be just plain silly.
IRC [19:28] <Dossy> Yeah. Oh well.
IRC [19:28] <Dossy> Sorry, motivation is severely waning.
IRC [19:31] <AndyPiskorski> Anybody know what bloody library gettimeofday() is in on MS Windows?
IRC [19:31] <Dossy> libc, probably
IRC [19:31] <AndyPiskorski> I don't think so, because I'm getting link errors.
IRC [19:31] <Dossy> what's Google say?
IRC [19:32] <AndyPiskorski> Nothing so far, I'm still looking.
IRC [19:35] <Dossy> gwin32 doesn't have gettimeofday() apparently.
IRC [19:35] <Dossy> GetSystemTimeAsFileTime
IRC [19:35] <Dossy> or one of those many variations.
IRC [19:41] <AndyPiskorski> Yep, looks that way. Tcl uses gettimeofday() only in its unix-only files, not in Windows.
IRC [19:41] <AndyPiskorski> So I need to change nsopenssl to not use gettimeofday().
IRC [20:05] <Dossy> Likely.
IRC [20:05] <Dossy> nsopenssl should use AOLserver's Ns_GetTime() API
IRC [20:05] <Dossy> which has the appropriate #ifdef's for _WIN32
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IRC [20:23] <AndyPiskorski> Oh, I forgot about Ns_GetTime(). I just posted a patch changing it to use Tcl_GetTime().
IRC [20:25] <AndyPiskorski> The Ns_GetTime and Tcl_GetTime implementations are quite different, btw, even though their functionality appears to be identical.
IRC [20:38] <Dossy> Correct.
IRC [20:38] <Dossy> And the Tcl guys didn't implement Tcl_DiffTime, which is annoying.
IRC [20:38] <Dossy> because if they did, we might be able to deprecate the Ns_ versions in favor of the Tcl_ ones.
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