2005/04/04
IRC [02:47] <jhavard> ascii is structured data.
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IRC [10:15] <olafm> Hi
IRC [10:40] <olafm> Is there an easy way, apart from redefining 'proc', to find out which file defined which proc?
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IRC [10:55] <Dossy> olafm: grep
IRC [11:01] <olafm> I meant from inside aolserver while it is running. I'm cleaning up a litle script I have that monitors all .tcl module files and reloads them if the mtime changes. It's basically just a convienience thing while developing. The only "bug" I currently see left is that it cannot remove procs defined by earlier versions. Say you have a file with procs a b and c and a and b depend on c.
IRC [11:02] <olafm> If you remove c and fix a but not b, that error won't be caught till a restart because the orhpaned c proc is still there.
IRC [11:07] <olafm> I haven't had this problem, because I use a variant of proc_doc for all my procs, that way I have a list of all procs and where they are defined. I just delete them all before source-ing the file again. I'm trying to keep the exteral dependencies as low as possible for this though.
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IRC [11:56] <tektubby> Dossy, how does nsopenssl decide which cipher to use? Is there a priority given to sequence in the ones listed in ns_params Protocols or CipherSuites?
IRC [12:02] <Dossy> yeah
IRC [12:02] <Dossy> it's left-to-right priority, IIRC
IRC [12:02] <tektubby> okay, thanks. good to knwo
IRC [12:02] <tektubby> know
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IRC [12:38] <Dossy> okay. mozilla thunderbird is great, except it lacks one feature that I haven't been able to find
IRC [12:39] <Dossy> basically, when replying to a message, if you highlight/select text, it should ONLY quote that text
IRC [12:39] <Dossy> hopefully it can be done as an extension ... or something
IRC [12:53] <olafm> Hmm, good point. Never tried that, bit that would be useful.
IRC [12:56] <Dossy> olafm: Other MUA's have this feature. Thunderbird is lagging behind.
IRC [12:57] <olafm> I've just recently started using Thunderbird. I still use mutt occasionally now, depending on where I am.
IRC [13:01] <Dossy> nod
IRC [13:01] <olafm> I've been reading the AOLserver mailing list archive and it seems taht there is some demand for "simpler" demo applications that OACS. How would these be packaged? I have a (very simple) text file based publishing framework which I could package up as an example of how to quickly build simple applications with AOLserver.
IRC [13:01] <Dossy> for my personal mail, I still use Mutt. for work-related mail (where I often get richmail, bleh) I was using AOL Fanfare, but now I'm switching to Thunderbird.
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> not sure - it'd be best if there were two dirs - one tcl/ and one pages/
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> people could just copy those wherever appropriate
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> although I think a web-based "installer" would be cool
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> basically a single installer.adp
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> and like old "shell archives" (.shar files), the .adp would contain ALL the files inside it
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> it'd present the user with a form saying "what URL prefix to install to"
IRC [13:02] <Dossy> and it'd use ns_config to find the pageroot and the tcl private library
IRC [13:03] <Dossy> and write the files out where they belong
IRC [13:03] <olafm> I was thinking of possibly packaging the whole server dir into a tarball. All that'd need be done would be untar, and start nsd with the config file.
IRC [13:03] <Dossy> it's a wicked idea, but cart-before-horse -- we need an app to install before the installer would be useful
IRC [13:03] <Dossy> olafm: I want a mechanism where multiple "modules" can be installed into a server --
IRC [13:03] <Dossy> the tarball approach will be ignorant of the user's config preferences
IRC [13:04] <Dossy> having an appname-install.adp is good because it can use ns_config/etc. to determine how the user has their server configured
IRC [13:04] <olafm> I guess it could just be a simple adp, copy it to the default server dir, fetch all files from a public http server and then source them into the current server with ns_eval.
IRC [13:04] <Dossy> nono
IRC [13:04] <Dossy> all the files included in appname-installer.adp, like I said.
IRC [13:05] <olafm> Hmmm, how would they be packaged inside the adp? As TCL strings?
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> sure.
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> possibly base64-encoded
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> so that binary files can also be wrapped.
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> single ADP file installer. it's trivially easy.
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> we can even use AJaX-like stuff to provide a installation status thing
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> all web-browser bsaed.
IRC [13:05] <Dossy> er based.
IRC [13:06] <Dossy> I could create a tcl script that can be used to wrap regular filesystem dirs into this installer .adp
IRC [13:06] <Dossy> so you execute it from the command line, and it spits out appname-installer.adp
IRC [13:06] <olafm> And the adp askes the user for the url prefix of the app and configures it as neede?
IRC [13:06] <Dossy> yep!
IRC [13:06] <Dossy> and the .adp uses [ns_library private] to figure out where to put the .tcl files
IRC [13:07] <Dossy> and [ns_info pageroot] for the .adp and .inc files
IRC [13:07] <olafm> Cool idea. I'll see if I can put together a simpel prototype.
IRC [13:07] <Dossy> it'd be cooler if you had an actual app. to wrap :-)
IRC [13:07] <Dossy> When I get Soapbox (my AOLserver blog app) closer to beta quality, I'll make it available using the app-wrapper.
IRC [13:08] <olafm> Yeah, I'd try to wrap said CMS. It consist of about 5 tcl files. It's really simple and has no external dependencies.
IRC [13:08] <Dossy> cool.
IRC [13:08] <Dossy> cool.
IRC [13:08] <olafm> Should it place all its tcl files directly into [ns_library private] or create a subdirectory for the app?
IRC [13:10] <Dossy> no
IRC [13:10] <Dossy> subdir
IRC [13:10] <Dossy> [ns_library private $appname]
IRC [13:10] <Dossy> say your app is "olafcms"
IRC [13:10] <Dossy> so appname would be olafcms
IRC [13:11] <Dossy> and in [ns_library private] you might throw olafcms.tcl which knows to source the contents of olafcms/*.tcl or whatnot
IRC [13:11] <Dossy> or you add an entry to the config.tcl for a new Tcl module
IRC [13:12] <Dossy> although I don't like apps having to change the config.tcl to make them work, but that's personal pref.
IRC [13:13] <olafm> I'll see what I can come up with.
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IRC [22:16] <olafm> Dossy: /w
IRC [22:16] <olafm> Dossy: Still up?
IRC [22:38] <Dossy> olafm: Getting ready for bed soon - what's up?
IRC [22:40] <olafm> I just emailed you a first draft of an installer. But I'm off to bed now too, it's 4:40 here :)
IRC [22:47] <Dossy> ok - cool!
IRC [22:47] <Dossy> i'll check it out tomororw
IRC [22:47] <Dossy> er tomorrow
IRC [22:47] <Dossy> where'd you mail it to?
IRC [22:48] <Dossy> I haven't gotten it yet ...
IRC [22:57] <olafm> dossy@panoptic.net
IRC [22:59] <olafm> Err, my bad, should have sent it to .com - I'll forward it.
IRC [23:59] <Dossy> ok.