2005/06/20
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IRC [18:19] <|Lurch|> how can I send content out that has null characters in the middle? ns_write appears to not work, and ns_return appears to put in newlines everywhere?
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IRC [19:43] <jhavard> based on the wiki, it looks like ns_write expects a string, which I'm guessing has all the standard catches of strings, i.e. null is the end.
IRC [19:46] <jhavard> If you're sending a file, ns_returnfile may be worth a look.
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IRC [20:22] <Dossy> need to improve the binary-handling capability of AOLserver all around. yeah.
IRC [20:22] <Dossy> grrr.
IRC [20:22] <Dossy> i hate html.
IRC [20:22] <|Lurch|> dossy
IRC [20:22] <Dossy> if you have a div float: right, is there a way to keep the div to the left from bleeding into it?
IRC [20:22] <Dossy> Sigh.
IRC [20:22] <|Lurch|> what do you mean by bleeding?
IRC [20:23] <Dossy> as in, the div on the left is rendering its right-most content on top of the right-floated div
IRC [20:23] <|Lurch|> unless they are absolutely positioned, i don't think that should supposed to happen.
IRC [20:24] <Dossy> nope, not absolutely positione.
IRC [20:24] <Dossy> er positioned.
IRC [20:24] <Dossy> and no widths specified.
IRC [20:24] <Dossy> they should just "grow" to fill the space necessary. sigh.
IRC [20:24] <|Lurch|> odd... i just did that about an hour ago
IRC [20:24] <|Lurch|> [one div float: left another float:right]
IRC [20:24] <|Lurch|> and it works as expected and no "bleeding".
IRC [20:25] <|Lurch|> wrt to my earlier question on ns_write - there is no way to write out an image/jpeg without writing it to a tmp file first?
IRC [20:26] <|Lurch|> dossy: i usually set bright background colors for all DIVs to see exactly where they are... are you SURE they actually overlap? :)
IRC [20:26] <Dossy> lurch: yeah, unfortunately, I think you have to write a file ... then you can use ns_returnfp or something
IRC [20:26] <Dossy> yes, lurch - definitely overlapping
IRC [20:27] <Dossy> and what's funny is there is NO reason why it should b
IRC [20:27] <Dossy> er be
IRC [20:27] <|Lurch|> can i see? :)
IRC [20:27] <|Lurch|> and writing out a file is a real pain, btw.
IRC [20:28] <Dossy> lurch: it's not something i can show right now :-(
IRC [20:28] <Dossy> lurch: yeah, writing the file out is annoying, indeed
IRC [20:29] <Dossy> good to have a ramdisk mounted :)
IRC [20:29] <Dossy> like tmpfs
IRC [20:29] <Dossy> okay, I've "fixed" it by rearranging the div's and instead making one div float:left
IRC [20:29] <|Lurch|> right, one is float:left, the other is float:right
IRC [20:30] <|Lurch|> dossy: while you are here and i have your attention :)
IRC [20:30] <Dossy> heh
IRC [20:30] <|Lurch|> i sent you a question a while back but you were mia
IRC [20:30] <Dossy> i originally had one just float:right
IRC [20:30] <Dossy> and that worked "great" :-)
IRC [20:31] <|Lurch|> it had to do with having long-running threads behave well in aolserver
IRC [20:31] <Dossy> crap. not working so well.
IRC [20:31] <Dossy> lurch: oh?
IRC [20:31] <Dossy> let me go get a smoek, then I'll be back to chat about this
IRC [20:31] <|Lurch|> i am starting a separate thread by scheduling a job that sources the tcllib ftpd
IRC [20:32] <|Lurch|> sure, go ahead. i'll be here.
IRC [20:32] <|Lurch|> then to prevent a thread from exiting and continue running the ftpd server, I have it "vwait forever" which makes the thread not play nice at all with the rest of aolserver
IRC [20:33] <|Lurch|> shutting down the server leaves it running, and things like resourcing of procs after files have changed that openACS does no longer work with this thread.
IRC [20:45] <Dossy> uh, yeah.
IRC [20:45] <Dossy> it's a Bad Idea.
IRC [20:45] <Dossy> you're better off just running that inside a standalone tclsh.
IRC [20:47] <Dossy> guess I need to use explicit widths/etc. - this really sucks.
IRC [20:48] <Dossy> especially since on ONE page, the div needs to be a different size than on another page.
IRC [20:48] <Dossy> okay, this REALLY sucks.
IRC [20:48] <|Lurch|> umm
IRC [20:49] <Dossy> it's also why I can't absolutely position the elements. sigh
IRC [20:49] <|Lurch|> which part is the bad idea? the "vwait forever"?
IRC [20:49] <Dossy> lurch: yeah, because aolserver doesn't respect the tcl event loop
IRC [20:49] <|Lurch|> right
IRC [20:49] <|Lurch|> so is there a way to enter the aolserver event loop?
IRC [20:50] <|Lurch|> or some api that starts an aolserver thread that I can use for my own purposes?
IRC [20:50] <Dossy> there really isn't one
IRC [20:50] <Dossy> it's multithreaded.
IRC [20:50] <|Lurch|> i don't care if it also accepts http connections <shrug>
IRC [20:50] <|Lurch|> i just need for one of the threads running to have sourced the ftpd code
IRC [20:50] <Dossy> exactly why can't you just run this in a standalone tclsh?
IRC [20:51] <|Lurch|> it interacts very closely with the web server
IRC [20:51] <|Lurch|> using the same database handles , caches , and nsv's
IRC [20:51] <Dossy> your ftpd does?
IRC [20:51] <|Lurch|> yes
IRC [20:51] <Dossy> oh. ugh.
IRC [20:51] <|Lurch|> it's possible to take it out
IRC [20:51] <|Lurch|> just non-trivial
IRC [20:52] <Dossy> it's never going to work well inside aolserver, though
IRC [20:52] <Dossy> unfortunately.
IRC [20:52] <Dossy> things that want the event loop vs. things that use threads ... mixing the two isn't pretty.
IRC [20:52] <|Lurch|> does aolserver ever kill threads for some reason/
IRC [20:53] <Dossy> nope
IRC [20:53] <|Lurch|> [ones that accept http connections]
IRC [20:53] <Dossy> aolserver actually has NO thread cancellation capability.
IRC [20:53] <Dossy> they get reaped eventually, if you've configured the nsd to do so
IRC [20:53] <Dossy> after idling, etc.
IRC [20:53] <|Lurch|> but what you're saying is that if a thread enters the aolserver event loop, it will not respect tcl's event queue?
IRC [20:54] <Dossy> no, it should, but aolserver doesn't have any way of making sure you're behaving nicely
IRC [20:54] <Dossy> i.e., if you write poorly behaved code, then that thread will run away on you
IRC [20:55] <Dossy> and i'm not sure if tcl's event loop works right across threads, anyhow
IRC [20:56] <|Lurch|> so, to put it in a different way, will the first thread that's started by aolserver ever go away before the server is shut down?
IRC [20:56] <Dossy> depends on what kind of thread that is
IRC [20:56] <Dossy> and what code it's running, etc.
IRC [20:57] <Dossy> need to get more specific.
IRC [20:57] <|Lurch|> hmm..
IRC [20:57] <|Lurch|> this is unpleasantly complicated.
IRC [20:58] <|Lurch|> is there information out there on what kind of threads are started?
IRC [20:58] <Dossy> sounds like you could spend some time reducing the complexity of your implementation, first. :P
IRC [20:58] <Dossy> depends on how you've configured your server, and what code you're running.
IRC [21:00] <|Lurch|> right, so where can i find out what configruation causes what threads to run?
IRC [21:01] <|Lurch|> is there no docs out there?
IRC [21:05] <|Lurch|> 'ello?
IRC [21:23] <|Lurch|> i guess you died.
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IRC [21:30] <Dossy> Should I have mentioned [ns_info threads] ?
IRC [21:30] <Dossy> Oh well.
IRC [21:30] <Dossy> I still hate HTML/CSS.
IRC [21:30] <Dossy> You know, this would lay out JUST fine with tables. Sigh.
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