2005/01/06
IRC [03:45] *** tekbasseman joined the chat.
IRC [12:12] *** iharding joined the chat.
IRC [12:21] *** holycow joined the chat.
IRC [13:23] *** cnk joined the chat.
IRC [13:25] <cnk> hey Andy, did you ever resolve the memory consumption issues you posted to the AOLserver email list?
IRC [13:26] <Dossy> Andy doesn't seem to actually IRC much. Just idle here a lot. :-)
IRC [13:27] <Dossy> Matter of fact, #aolserver is mostly quiet these days. Wonder why ...
IRC [13:27] <cnk> so I noticed from the logs
IRC [13:28] <Dossy> It's a pity, actually. I'd thought there were at least twice or three times this many people who use AOLserver. Perhaps most either can't get on IRC, or can't be bothered, or just don't like chatting in general.
IRC [13:28] <Dossy> In 2005, I'd really like to try and get the "community" to do more formal activism and evangelism of the AOLserver platform. I just don't know how to motivate people to do it, though.
IRC [13:30] <cnk> well after I go grab some coffee, perhaps I can make it less quiet. I could use some help figuring out how to set up more reliable load tests
IRC [13:31] <Dossy> Sure.
IRC [13:31] <Dossy> Absolutely!
IRC [13:32] <cnk> thanks. tty in a few
IRC [13:32] <Dossy> k.
IRC [13:32] <holycow> Dossy, agreed
IRC [13:32] <holycow> i'm going to help out on the graphics and marketing end for openacs, i'd like to chip in for aolserver as well
IRC [13:33] <holycow> i think aolserver is grossly underutilized
IRC [13:33] <holycow> frankly it makes the php/apache stuff look kinda humorous :)
IRC [13:33] <Dossy> holycow: Indeed.
IRC [13:33] <holycow> as a tangent, i have a question:
IRC [13:33] <Dossy> PHP and Apache have their place.
IRC [13:34] <holycow> i rund lotus domino server, and the reason i'm here is because aolserver beautifully replaces the domino application server component
IRC [13:34] <Dossy> For most small sites (and I'd pull out of my ass that 98% of the sites that are up today are small), ANY web technology is adequate.
IRC [13:34] <holycow> Dossy, indeed they do, but there is a gross imbalance in the market when you compare the technologies
IRC [13:34] <Dossy> Oh, really? Is there some integration between AOLserver and Domino available?
IRC [13:34] <holycow> no, i'm looking at it as a replacement
IRC [13:35] <Dossy> Ah, OK.
IRC [13:35] <holycow> i can replace all components of domino with open source, aolserver was the last one ... dominos application server is great, but the whole platform is too closed for my liking
IRC [13:35] <holycow> but
IRC [13:35] <Dossy> Interesting - where do you work where you're allowed to make this kind of decision? :)
IRC [13:36] <holycow> because it's closed there are a few advantages, primarily in administration of the server, domino admin client has a lot of great features for tracking email, logging, and managing various server functions in real time
IRC [13:36] <holycow> aha i'm the cio here :)
IRC [13:36] <Dossy> Small shop? (Big enough to use Domino, though.)
IRC [13:37] <holycow> my question to you is: has there been any thought given to how an 'admin client' would be written so that one could track various aolserver stuff real time so to speak?
IRC [13:37] <holycow> well 500 people, not big at all, enough to justify some bad decisions tho :)
IRC [13:37] <holycow> heh
IRC [13:37] <Dossy> /me snickers.
IRC [13:37] <holycow> altho at that time we didn't have the open source options we do today
IRC [13:37] <Dossy> Well, inside AOL we have some closed-source "stats" package that's web-based.
IRC [13:38] <Dossy> There's the freely available (but very thin) "nstelemetry.adp" that does some statistics gathering.
IRC [13:38] <Dossy> I'd LOVE to see the Open Source community put together an impressive admin interface. That'd be fantastic.
IRC [13:38] <Dossy> The biggest fear is access control/security for public websites ...
IRC [13:38] <holycow> *nod* i'm not sure if its necessary, just thought to ask and see where the idea is at
IRC [13:39] <holycow> right.
IRC [13:39] <Dossy> This is why things like the control port (nscp) are traditionally bound to localhost (127.0.0.1), so that outside connections can't be used to try and hack it.
IRC [13:39] <holycow> so obviously then there is the server level admin stuff which falls under normal unixy sys admin stuff
IRC [13:39] <Dossy> Someone within AOL hacked together a small Tk app that connects to AOLserver, fetches a bunch of info, and provides some kind of "admin console" but it's just a play thing at the moment.
IRC [13:39] <holycow> and then perhaps theres stuff that falls under aolserver/openacs/farmework level
IRC [13:40] <holycow> ah!
IRC [13:40] <Dossy> I think application-specific statistics are valuable and should be developed as part of the application. I know, that's a cop-out answer ... :-)
IRC [13:40] <holycow> not really, now that i think about the question a bit more ...
IRC [13:41] <holycow> i think domino beind a closed package allows them to play games with the question at hand
IRC [13:41] <holycow> their admin client seems to use the application server/framework it self to run the admin tasks forms to control various aspects of the server
IRC [13:41] <holycow> BUT
IRC [13:41] <Dossy> aim, shovel solution is http://www.misplaced.net/~obremski/stuff/thesolution.jpg
IRC [13:41] <holycow> clearly some functions cannot sit atop the server and need to be run as separate processes outside of the server
IRC [13:41] <Dossy> bot, shovel solution is http://www.misplaced.net/~obremski/stuff/thesolution.jpg
IRC [13:42] <Dossy> if your web app is "do e-commerce" then part of the app should be an admin tool that lets you see order summaries, reports, etc.
IRC [13:42] <Dossy> maybe.
IRC [13:42] <Dossy> shovel solution?
IRC [13:42] <holycow> okay, perhaps its time i sit down behind domino, quantify the various admin tasks that their client actually does
IRC [13:42] <holycow> and categorize appropriately
IRC [13:43] <Dossy> nod
IRC [13:43] <holycow> then look at what they are really doing :)
IRC [13:43] <Dossy> come up with a features requirement doc
IRC [13:43] <Dossy> and see what you actually need, and just quickly implement in aolserver/adp :)
IRC [13:43] <holycow> *nod*
IRC [13:43] <holycow> yeah, thats what attracted me to aolserver in the first place, not adp, but the tcl integration :)
IRC [13:43] <Dossy> yup.
IRC [13:44] <Dossy> surprised to hear you say that. most folks go "tcl, whuzzat?
IRC [13:44] <holycow> well, at this point, i'm no coder but you use what you gotta use
IRC [13:45] <holycow> i would preffer python, but tcl seems very similar infact so ... all good :)
IRC [13:45] <Dossy> I laugh because I hear all these Computer Science graduates going "if you're not encapsulating, doing good object-hierarchy design, modeling, yadda yadda, you're not engineering software." and I respond "no, if you do all that, you're OVER-engineering software. this is a webapp, for chrissakes. manipulate a few strings, dump HTML to a client. wtf do you need more than a simple string mangling scripting language for?"
IRC [13:45] <holycow> lol
IRC [13:45] <Dossy> python has its place. web app dev. is not it.
IRC [13:46] <holycow> i still think you can create some very sophisticated applications with it
IRC [13:46] <Dossy> most web apps just need a thinger to query data from a data source (flat files, xml docs, rdbms), do some string matching, express some conditional logic, and spit out a string response (html, xml)
IRC [13:46] <holycow> i think your observation has to do with the fact that web apps are stateless
IRC [13:46] <holycow> and as such you get rid of a whole set of issues as a result of not having a whole set of features available to you in first place
IRC [13:46] <holycow> as you said 'its just a web app'
IRC [13:46] <Dossy> most web apps just need a thinger to query data from a data source (flat files, xml docs, rdbms), do some string matching (glob, regexp), express some conditional logic (if, while, foreach), and spit out a string response (html, xml)
IRC [13:46] <holycow> lol right
IRC [13:47] * Dossy nods
IRC [13:47] <holycow> and actually, thats about 80% of all business apps
IRC [13:47] <holycow> most of that stuff is just simple forms
IRC [13:47] <holycow> data in, out, some mangling, done
IRC [13:47] <Dossy> exactly.
IRC [13:47] *** tebasse parted the chat.
IRC [13:48] <Dossy> for the remaining 20%, you build the appropriate solution for your problem.
IRC [13:48] <holycow> right
IRC [13:48] <Dossy> using a generalized solution is often more work paring it down to what you actually need to solve your problem than building up just enough to solve it.
IRC [13:48] <Dossy> but anyway, I'm preaching to the choir here. :)
IRC [13:48] <holycow> i was thinking to my self here if i'm over generalizing ...
IRC [13:48] <holycow> but
IRC [13:48] <holycow> when i look at something like openacs
IRC [13:49] <holycow> tcl is not exactly a slouch
IRC [13:49] <Dossy> right.
IRC [13:49] <holycow> it's no c++ but we're not coding 3d first person shooters here
IRC [13:49] <holycow> its a goddamn web app
IRC [13:49] <holycow> right
IRC [13:50] <Dossy> EXACTLY.
IRC [13:50] <Dossy> Once people understand that, things become clear.
IRC [13:50] <Dossy> The problem is people who puff out their chests and go "I'm a web PROGRAMMER" - those same people who called themselves "HTML 'coders'" -- ha.
IRC [13:50] <holycow> now i understand your python statement
IRC [13:50] <holycow> your right
IRC [13:50] <iharding> Dossy, where can I find a copy of nsfreetds 0.2?
IRC [13:50] <Dossy> Dude, you're marking up text. There's no /programming/ about that.
IRC [13:50] <holycow> python is more suited to standalone apps, quick prototyping, *nod*
IRC [13:50] <Dossy> iharding: Hmm --
IRC [13:51] <Dossy> holycow: Actually, Tcl is remarkably good about prototying quick apps and building standalone apps too.
IRC [13:51] <holycow> Dossy, hehehe :) yep, i hear ya
IRC [13:51] <Dossy> Eg., Tcl/Tk. :)
IRC [13:51] <holycow> *nod*
IRC [13:51] <holycow> <-- haven't really seen any tcl until about two weeks ago when i ran into aolserver
IRC [13:51] <holycow> which btw...
IRC [13:51] <holycow> i ran into by accident, because i misunderstood what open groupware was built on
IRC [13:51] <holycow> heheh :)
IRC [13:52] <holycow> now, the one thing that has me thinking
IRC [13:52] <Dossy> ha! well, I'm glad you found AOLserver.
IRC [13:52] <holycow> aolserver can be used as an applications engine for a good few other projects as well
IRC [13:52] <Dossy> We need more clueful people in C-level positions to understand about it.
IRC [13:53] <Dossy> holycow: I built an entire ETL system using AOLserver/Tcl last year.
IRC [13:53] <holycow> really?
IRC [13:53] <Dossy> The only web pages it serves are the system status pages for Ops to monitor its condition.
IRC [13:53] * Dossy nods
IRC [13:53] <holycow> see i've been searching for an app server for quite a while now
IRC [13:54] <holycow> and all the other options are pretty much shit
IRC [13:54] <holycow> they have their place, but they are either over engineered
IRC [13:54] <Dossy> It grinds raw log files and bulk-loads data into a ~500 GB MySQL DW, as well as output files in a proprietary XML format for bulk-loading into a Business Objects DW.
IRC [13:54] <holycow> or aimed at a different target like apache/php combo
IRC [13:54] * Dossy nods
IRC [13:55] <Dossy> iharding: you there? try ftp://ftp.panoptic.com/pub/nsfreetds/
IRC [13:55] <iharding> OK
IRC [13:55] <Dossy> ftp://ftp.panoptic.com/pub/nsfreetds/nsfreetds-v0_2.tar.gz
IRC [13:55] <holycow> i think we also need a tcl plugin for the eclipse ide
IRC [13:56] <iharding> Got it, thanks!
IRC [13:56] <Dossy> I need to speak to the Powers That Be about being able to arrange for some interviews at popular tech trade rags so I can speak about AOLserver. We need some paid PR.
IRC [13:56] <Dossy> I don't use Eclipse (vim all the way) but that's a good idea, if it'll help adoption.
IRC [13:56] <iharding> Powers tHat Be (PHB)
IRC [13:56] <Dossy> :) :) :)
IRC [13:58] <holycow> Dossy, i can help work on the marketing material
IRC [13:58] <holycow> my background is graphic design and advertising of all things
IRC [13:58] <holycow> ehe
IRC [13:58] <Dossy> well, if you do an AOLserver implementation, I'd love you to write up a case study/whitepaper/press release, if you're allowed to.
IRC [13:59] <holycow> yeah, we're open to that
IRC [13:59] <martinh> i believe PHB is Pointy Haired Boss, after the dilbert character. and Powers That Be is PTB.
IRC [13:59] <Dossy> And where are you geographically located?
IRC [13:59] <holycow> i'm actually thining of putting together a website detailing the business case for open source
IRC [14:00] <Dossy> martinh: Indeed, but iharding was making a sly joke.
IRC [14:00] <holycow> ie. specifically why for us it makes sense
IRC [14:00] <holycow> aolserver of course, from what i've seen so far, will be key
IRC [14:00] <holycow> i cant imagine really deploying apache/php anymore, except for things like moodle that make no sense to port over int he short term
IRC [14:01] <holycow> geographically? vancouver canada
IRC [14:01] <Dossy> holycow: AOLserver runs PHP just fine, FYI.
IRC [14:02] <holycow> it does?
IRC [14:02] <martinh> yea.
IRC [14:02] <holycow> no shit?
IRC [14:02] <martinh> i have squirrelmail running in my aolserver.
IRC [14:02] <martinh> well, it's PHP so I wouldn't go so far as to say "no shit". . .
IRC [14:02] <Dossy> No, no hsit.
IRC [14:02] <holycow> is deploying php apps on aolserver fairly straight forward?
IRC [14:02] <Dossy> We've tested and verified that Squirrelmail, phpBB2 both successfully run under AOLserver/PHP.
IRC [14:02] <holycow> i really want to avoid installing apache if i can actually
IRC [14:03] <Dossy> holycow: what? you don't like Apache's similarity to IIS -- "vulnerability du jour" ?
IRC [14:03] <holycow> wow, nice, i didn't know.
IRC [14:03] <Dossy> BTW, the folks from http://fortifysoftware.com/ did a free code audit of AOLserver and came up with NOTHING of serious impact (no remote vulnerabilities).
IRC [14:04] <holycow> lol, well there is that, but even before that it's just having duplicate servers running
IRC [14:04] <Dossy> A few bugs, and a few risk areas for folks using nspd/nsext (which is like less than 0.01% of the AOLserver installations out there).
IRC [14:04] <holycow> its easier to manage and trouble shoot one central server
IRC [14:04] <holycow> aolserver had a code audit?
IRC [14:04] <holycow> heh, wow!
IRC [14:05] <holycow> now that i can deploy php apps under aolserver ... my heads starting to hurt :)
IRC [14:05] <Dossy> holycow: Yeah, the Fortify folks approached me and offered to do it for free -- their product is "Source Code Analysis Suite 3.0" -- so they offered to run their product on AOLserver for free.
IRC [14:05] <holycow> because that means as a result of tcl, i can write some easy glue between applications if necessary
IRC [14:05] <holycow> really?
IRC [14:05] <Dossy> Take it for what it is -- an automated code analysis product that can only do so much -- but it's still good to know that it passed with flying colors, essentially.
IRC [14:05] <holycow> nice, thats really encouraging
IRC [14:06] <Dossy> OH - I don't think they ran the tool on Tcl source, just AOLserver --
IRC [14:06] <holycow> *nod*
IRC [14:06] <Dossy> But, unless you allow remote users to feed you Tcl and you execute it, well ... that's not a real issue, is it? :)
IRC [14:06] <holycow> i wonder if would be possible to convince a company to do a full audit, whatever that means but get more than one organizations word for it
IRC [14:06] <Dossy> and if you DO allow remote users to feed you Tcl and execute it -- game's pretty much over at that point, anyway. :-) [exec rm -rf /]
IRC [14:06] <holycow> Dossy, *nod* right
IRC [14:07] <iharding> Urgh. I remember now. nsfreetds0.2 doesn't work on AOLServer < 4.0
IRC [14:07] <holycow> i still haveto get some time to play with it ... but i was thinking about mozilla's xul
IRC [14:08] <holycow> aolserver with openacs should make it easy to deploy rich applications via firefox
IRC [14:08] <Dossy> iharding: Heh.
IRC [14:08] <holycow> because all the data mangling happens server side (as it should), your just serving xul files to mozilla
IRC [14:08] <Dossy> holycow: Interesting idea.
IRC [14:08] <holycow> you no longer need to do any data manipulation via mozilla which wasnt designed for that in the first place
IRC [14:08] <Dossy> for building more integrated client-server style apps.
IRC [14:08] <cnk> Dossy: what version of AOLserver did Fortify audit?
IRC [14:09] <holycow> maybe not trully 'rich' applications in the way microsoft defines them
IRC [14:09] <Dossy> cnk: I believe CVS HEAD - or maybe 4.0.9
IRC [14:09] <holycow> but 'rich user interface' anyway
IRC [14:10] <holycow> for forms based applications, it really could rock, although theres nothing wrong with plain html
IRC [14:10] <Dossy> cnk: If the specific detail is important for you, I can ask and find out.
IRC [14:10] <cnk> Dossy: no. Thanks I just needed to know approximately "now"
IRC [14:11] <Dossy> cnk: Yeah, they did the audit in December 2004 -- very recently.
IRC [14:11] <Dossy> I can't imagine they wouldn't have used the latest official release at the time.
IRC [14:11] <Dossy> brb - 10 min.
IRC [14:36] <Dossy> OK, back.
IRC [15:00] <Dossy> So, did everybody disappear?
IRC [15:00] <Dossy> cnk - you had a question earlier?
IRC [15:01] <iharding> still here... looking at nsfreetds.c
IRC [15:02] <holycow> naw, i'm always lurkin :)
IRC [15:04] <iharding> I actually turned ON verbose, and it looks like the query get sent,
IRC [15:04] <iharding> the error gets returned,
IRC [15:05] <iharding> Status is NS_ROWS,
IRC [15:05] <iharding> then DbBindRow explodes.
IRC [15:05] <Dossy> yeah.
IRC [15:06] <Dossy> need stacktrace.
IRC [15:14] <iharding> It's in the mail
IRC [15:23] <Dossy> OK, now you have to compile AOLserver with --enable-symbols and then recompile nsfreetds.
IRC [15:23] <Dossy> Stack trace isn't quite so useful without those ... :)
IRC [15:24] <Dossy> also, what version of AOLserver is htis?
IRC [15:24] <Dossy> er, this
IRC [15:27] <iharding> 4.0.9
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IRC [15:32] <iharding> OK, it's in the mail, again.
IRC [15:40] <Dossy> OK.
IRC [15:43] <Dossy> ian, do you have that gdb session still running?
IRC [15:43] <iharding> Yes
IRC [15:44] <Dossy> OK, i'm gonna send you privmsgs
IRC [15:44] <Dossy> To keep from spamming everyone here :)
IRC [15:44] <Dossy> assume everything in quotes is a command, followed by enter
IRC [15:46] <iharding> argv=0x409ee5f0) at dbtcl.c:354
IRC [15:50] <Dossy> what's the tcl code being executed?
IRC [16:16] <cnk> Quick question, is there somewhere that I can get a description of what the information from nstelemetry means? Or am I about to start reading source code and asking lots of questions here?
IRC [16:17] <Dossy> I hesitate to say that it's "self-explanatory" but obviously not. :-)
IRC [16:17] <Dossy> Exactly what information are you looking at that you don't know what it means?
IRC [16:19] <cnk> for example, in the memory cache section, it is probably self explanitory that hitrate being high is good. But I have an entry labled "secret_tokens" with 99 entries 99 misses hitrate 0. What is that and should I worry about it?
IRC [16:20] <cnk> and I am pretty damn fuzzy about what I do with the Thread Lock table
IRC [16:22] <Dossy> http://aolserver.com/sf/bug/1097485 -- blah
IRC [16:23] <Dossy> secret_tokens is an openacs thing for signing cookies
IRC [16:23] <Dossy> if hitrate is 0, then why are they putting it in the cache. that's kinda lame
IRC [16:23] <Dossy> thread lock table? Hmm
IRC [16:24] <cnk> Probably the important table (for me) is the URL stats. So what are wait, open, and closed. The units are claimed to be sec - are those averages
IRC [16:24] <Dossy> 'thread locks' are just mutexes
IRC [16:24] <cnk> And that bug - I had heard about that on the mailing list but 1 I am not on AOLServer 4 and 2 don't have ssl compiled in
IRC [16:24] <Dossy> interesting, my "url stats" is empty
IRC [16:25] <iharding> So's mine
IRC [16:25] <Dossy> yeah, if you don't use nsopenssl you don't have to worry.
IRC [16:25] <iharding> It generates an error in the log.
IRC [16:25] <cnk> I think there is a parameter in the config file that says wheter or not to collect url stats
IRC [16:25] <cnk> I suspect you have it off
IRC [16:25] <iharding> Oh yeah. I remember seeing that.
IRC [16:26] <Dossy> you're on aolserver3, right?
IRC [16:26] <Dossy> aolserver4 has no urlstats, I believe
IRC [16:26] <iharding> I'm on 4.
IRC [16:26] <cnk> yes 3.? + ad13
IRC [16:27] <iharding> Out for some air.. BRB
IRC [16:27] <Dossy> that explains it, cnk :)
IRC [16:27] <Dossy> yeah, as4 has no urlstats - wonder what it was tracking in as3.
IRC [16:28] <cnk> Do older versions of the Oracle driver leak memory? My server behaves a lot like what Andy reported for his 4.0.?8 - memory grows and grows - can't let it grow without bound. I end up having to kill it at about 2 G
IRC [16:28] <Dossy> things to look for w/r/t hotspots - under "thread locks", if nbusy isn't 0, it's something to look ta
IRC [16:28] <Dossy> should probably add a "%" column to thread locks
IRC [16:28] <Dossy> for nbusy/nlocks pct
IRC [16:29] <Dossy> if that % is say, more than 0.5%, you might want to look closer
IRC [16:29] <Dossy> memory cache: if hitrate is low (less than 95%) then either it's not worth caching OR you're not taking advantage of the cache properly
IRC [16:31] <cnk> OK that seems helpful. How do I track back to find out what something like adpObj.7958888 is?
IRC [16:31] <Dossy> not sure if you can at the moment
IRC [16:32] <Dossy> if it's critical, maybe we can hack together a quick introspection module you could load to dump the script that's contained inside the adpObj's. maybe.
IRC [16:32] <cnk> OK - not right now
IRC [16:32] <Dossy> yeah.,
IRC [16:32] <Dossy> maybe a feature for 4.1
IRC [16:32] <cnk> But I would say that for the most part nstelemetry does not seem to tell me a lot I can use - except perhaps that my Tcl library seems extensive
IRC [16:33] <cnk> and that info is copied into each thread at thread startup, right?
IRC [16:35] <cnk> I have seen mentions of tuning thread stats - such as in the Docs, but not about how to go about that. Is this just empirical? Try different combinations and see if the server is faster? or memory usages grows more slowly?
IRC [16:35] <Dossy> or lock contention goes down, etc.
IRC [16:35] <Dossy> yeah. it's a lot of voodoo and intution
IRC [16:37] <cnk> I wish my autobench load testing results were more convincing. None of the application changes I have made - other than running AOLServer without ACS at all - made very much difference. And it appears to me that I have some hysteresis - probably because of the apparent memory leak
IRC [16:39] <cnk> I would have expected that commenting out all of the permission checking code would have made a measurable difference - but it is within the margin of error for the tests I have run.
IRC [16:40] <cnk> that is what got me wondering about whether just having an extensive Tcl library - even if it isn't being used to serve my static html test page - was perhaps the difference between my stripped down ACS test and AOLServer w/o any application code
IRC [16:40] <Dossy> Definitely.
IRC [16:40] <Dossy> The more tcl procs you have in the library, the slower Tcl interp creation will be.
IRC [16:41] <Dossy> and as load increases and interps are depleted from the pool, new interps will need to be created on-demand ...
IRC [16:41] <Dossy> OK, I need to go cook dinner for the kids -- bbl.
IRC [16:41] <cnk> well not having tcl procs is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'll try tuning threads
IRC [16:42] <cnk> thanks for your help, more later
IRC [16:42] <Dossy> how many is "a lot of procs" ?
IRC [16:42] <Dossy> if you really DO have a lot, you should look at Zoran's "ttrace" package - similar to the "lazyloader" that we use at AOL
IRC [16:42] <Dossy> but then, we have over 10,000 procs. that's "a lot" :)
IRC [16:42] <Dossy> each interp on creation was sourcing some ~20M of Tcl procs :)
IRC [16:42] <cnk> not anywhere near that - eyeballing the list ~1000
IRC [16:43] <Dossy> still, 1000 procs on what kind of hardware?
IRC [16:43] <Dossy> also what rev of Tcl?
IRC [16:43] <cnk> how can I figure out what the size of the interp is?
IRC [16:43] <cnk> 8.3.2
IRC [16:43] <Dossy> yeah, if you wanna see a material impact to your benchmarks, try setting up ttrace.
IRC [16:43] <Dossy> eek, tcl 8.3? yeah ...
IRC [16:43] <Dossy> get into tcl 8.4.9 and aolserver 4, you'll see a material increase.
IRC [16:44] <Dossy> then, set up ttrace, and you'll probably see even more.
IRC [16:44] <Dossy> size of the interp? not sure --
IRC [16:44] <Dossy> anyhow, gotta run - bbl
IRC [16:44] <cnk> I think it is time to make the move - but I need to be able to do some load testing before I am comfortable switching up to AOLserver 4
IRC [16:45] <Dossy> everyone has said that AS4 performs at least 10% better than AS3.
IRC [16:45] <Dossy> but yes, you should do your own due diligence, and take good notes and publish your results, PLEASE. :-)
IRC [16:46] <cnk> will do. 10% is not enough for what I want to see - but finding the other issues may get me where I need to be
IRC [16:46] <holycow> famous last words >_>
IRC [16:50] <iharding> For later... print ((TDSRESULTINFO *) ((TDSSOCKET *) handle->connection)->res_info)
IRC [16:50] <iharding> $4 = (struct tds_result_info *) 0x0
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